A fascinating conversation and 4 people I have great admiration for in their pursuits of religious annihilation.
I also dont agree with all of the views of these men but I have far more respect for them than most.
My muse has left me for now maybe it will return, who knows!..................take care..
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AstroGnostic: Trapped Here on this Alien World-UPDATED!!!
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Well, here we are- it's Twilight time again. The Gnostic vampire-superhero
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Gavin! Buddy! Thanks for popping in/out. Religious annihilation, didn't think about that one. Always love your bluntness brother.
Take care!
Not a fan of the four, they take on religion but don't touch on ideology (Hitchens touched slightly on communism though), which is the new form of religion. And both are just forms of Belief Systems used to divide and conquer.
And if they adressed ideology too, there'd be some people upset (if they were tackling "belief" in general instead of religion right now, Obama's 'hope you can believe in' campaign would be a joke for instance) and they wouldn't get all their airtime. They way they talk in their programs, books I also don't see them 'converting' much religious people at all to their ideology - atheism, which is about the only 'good' thing that can come from all their preaching isn't it? The four horsemen their work could also be to kill the old religions to make way for the new technocratic ideology slash religion.
I hope we can transcend belief all together, about as realistically like I hope for world peace lol.
peace
Speaking of "4 horsemen" did you see the "4 masked men" (cyclists) arriving in Beijing to protest the smog? Almost 8-8-08, wonder what they have in store for us.
An another topic, looks like one of the "twins" (mary kate & ashley) will be subpoenaed to court on Heath's death...wonder whats up with that.
Be well mate!
Hiya Gavin
Good to see you back, even if briefly.
If you've got a description of your muse I'll keep a look out for her
ATB
Im afraid dedroid u are both correct and incorrect..
In this video they collectivly dont take on what you term as ideology. They all in fact do take on ideology each to different degrees in their other works and videos.
For example in Dawkins debate with Krauss he clearly states that belief in belief is in fact the enemy of science and that in fact it is only scientists who constsntly challenge their own beliefs or belief systems.
The problem is with their own use of the word believe or belief and this too is recognised by all four in their other works. We seem to have trouble finding a replacement for that word and i would suggest that that is not their fault.
At the same time i am at a loss to explain Hitchens stance on the Iraq war as is dawkins how wholly disagrees with Hitchens on this point and other related points.
Your misunderstanding concerning Atheism is confusing. Do you think Atheism is a belief on a par with religious belief. This is a common mistake made by the religious concerning Atheism.
Atheists are not believers and we dont have a fixed viewpoint on the subject as we view it as unknowable. How can anyone believe in the unknowable.
Atheism is not a belief system. The absence of evidence has forced atheists to declare we dont believe in what you catholics believe or you jews believe but no self respecting atheist will say i believe there is nothing as we have a paucity of evidence for that aswell.
The problems are language based and thats it fullstop. Atheists cant hold a conversation with the religious without using the word belief.
To say that Atheism is just a form of belief akin to religion is wrong and shows a deep lack of understanding about Atheism. For a fan of Wilson i am at a loss to explain where you have gone wrong with this line of thinking.
regards g
Hi Gavin, I wanted to let you know I'm using your insight: The Fool = Jesus, in my latest post about Heath/the Joker, etc., and I want to let you know. You Rock.
Cheers, Michael
Hi Michael, How are ya m8..
thats grand i look forward to reading it...its very kind of you to let me know and you didnt have to but thanks anyway.
Hope you are well....g
I'm glad that they tackle belief and ideology too in their work, and will check that out.
Gavin, it all depends on how you define atheism and it's clear we have different thoughts about it.
In a perfect world I like to define atheism as "not believing in earlier conflicting versions of God or Gods from religions out there" too, but in practice for atheists, it means a lot more than that, for example a lot of atheists (not all of course) are materialists (matter is the only reality) too. Like Dawkins for instance.
You have defined your view of Atheism as: "The absence of evidence has forced atheists to declare we dont believe in what you catholics believe or you jews believe but no self respecting atheist will say i believe there is nothing as we have a paucity of evidence for that aswell."
Your statement about 'self respecting atheists' is something I have never witnessed in practice from atheists (99% of people I know) and to the contrary have seen almost exclusively materialist responses, and mostly ridiculing and ignoring responses, concerning those aspects of reality. So that is from where I am commenting.
So I see atheism is a belief system in that somebunall who subscribe to it will through their belief system filter out aspects of reality that do not fit in with that filtered view of that reality.
Atheism in my dictionary is 'a disbelief in the existence of God or Gods' (and again, the entire argument is based on how one defines atheism) - that is declaring more than rejecting religion alone.
But materialism (matter is the only reality) may be a better word for what I mean, and a lot (but not all) of atheists are materialists, all those I know are at least. By which I just mean that atheism and materialism are ideologies that censor aspects of reality like advances in science, etc, and hence is comparable to religion.
I am glad that they tackle religion, though a title like "the God delusion" obviously could have been chosen better to reach the religious folk. And I just regret they don't take on ideology too, which filters reality and creates division as well.
"For a fan of Wilson i am at a loss to explain where you have gone wrong with this line of thinking."
Well for a fellow fan of Wilson I don't see the need that there should be anything 'wrong' with my interpretation. It was just a different one based on a different definition of the word atheism.
And understanding that, what I said was textbook RAW. If we draw atheism to materialism which is what I mean, as a lot of atheists are materialists:
"The materialist fundamentalists are funnier than the Christian fundamentalists, because they think they're rational!"
Robert Anton Wilson
Robert Anton Wilson himself also described the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal (recently renamed to CSI), as one of the most dogmatic, fanatical, and crusading of the "atheistic religions" around now.
By which of course I don't mean that all or even most atheists think this way, but let's face it, a lot of atheists their reality is being filtered because of their belief system. That does not mean I think they're on the exact same level as religious people ideologically, but they're not as openminded as they sometimes like to think and that's my motivation for talking about it, just to increase openmindedness and less rigidity in thought.
Peace
Hi, i know this comment doesn't really belong here. But, i was just reading through the davinci code posts again, and i couldn't help but notice, the masks they wear and that symbol during the pagan sex ritual,
Has anyone watched the opening credits to this years big brother?? it goes really fast, flashing up all kinds of images like that, i'm going to record it and play it back frame by frame....
Hi again, i forgot, regarding madeleine and whatever anyone's personal belief is, Gerry has stated on several occasions, amongst other things.....
That he believes Madeleine was TAKEN (he never said abducted on these particular times) by a wealthy family and they are treating her like a princess!!
I'm never sure whether she was sacrificed or on some other journey of her destiny, i do think she may return, aged 10 or 11 and the only way we the public will know for sure it is her, will be unusual eye marking, the proof to the world......
After losing over a year of my life to "madeleine news and opinions" lol.....the only way i can summise this, is that the rabbit hole goes very deep, and has many tunnels,
For Madeleine, i think her
destiny began on may 3rd...
Hi Gavin
Just felt a pull to drop in & say hi.
Hope you are doing well. Your 'fire' is missed from the blogosphere.
Very best wishes
Alex
The only person that can be an atheist is God himself. To say 'There is no God.' requires one to know all things, to be all places at the same time, and have all power. Thus , you would have to be omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent. Atheism is absurd and self-refuting.
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